Got a quick one for you guys since me next post is gonna take some work to finish
So as some of you might know, I feel that in order for GURPS to get out of its current rut it needs more positive exposure over social media by cleaver and creative people. To which I've been trying my best to find and give exposure to people I feel can best spread the word.
Well I got another one for ya and holly crap, this is the kind of content we need!
I give you GURPS Federal Agent! Not only goes he understand how to make his videos appealing to a modern audience and is quite the Dank Lord of the Meme but they are entertaining as hell to boot.
So far he has two types of videos, short memey ones that he pumps out daily that are a good way to hook people into GURPS by showing clips of movies and shows and showing how GURPS can handle them. His other vids are longer full vids that go deep in the mechanisms of how GURPS works. Their main hook is how he uses AI voice generators to make it sound like characters such as Robert Edwin House or Simon Belmont are narrating the videos increasing their appeal and a lot of work goes into the make sure the dialogue sounds in character.
I don't know what else to say but go check this guy out ASAP!
Hello! I have a question...not about this post (though it was quite helpful as I'm using Tactical Shooting in a sci fi campaign!) I had a question about power cells. You wrote a blog post or two regarding power cell capacity. I was wondering if you had read the Paper Cells article from Pyramid and what you thought about reconciling their capacity with the 'canon' Power Cell capacity. The Power Cells' capabilities in kJ scale directly with mass, but the Paper Cells vary in voltage which changes kJ output when you calculate. I know with batteries the kJ doesn't really matter as much since they're not rapid discharge...but I'm trying to make them work together and would appreciate any suggestions you might have on that. I would have private messaged but I didn't know how on this blogging platform haha!
ReplyDeleteThanks,
Adam
Ok, so in Ultra-Tech there was originally going to be power cells and power packs (like in Transhuman Space). Power packs were going to power weapons, they held 180 kj per pound at TL 9 and could discharge their entire capacity in an instant. Power cells are future batteries, they held more energy but couldn't discharge them as quickly so they would power normal gadgets..
DeleteOf course the whole, "GURPS is too complex!" meme pushed pushed by a whiny minority started up around this time and SJG had David rework Ultra-Tech into being simpler and power cells and power packs got merged into one.
On my blog what I call "power cells" are what would of been power packs and call what would of been power cells batteries.
So in this case, paper cells are closer to the term power cell as was going to be used by Ultra-Tech and Transhuman Space and are based off of the authors own research into real world paper batteries and have no relation to the numbers used by David or on this blog.
Based on assumptions used in Transhuman Space (which seems to be half between what 4th edition would call TL 9 and TL 10), a TL 9 C battery holds 900 kj but can only discharge at a rate of 1 kw. This is actually far worse then what a paper cell can do.
Ok, so assuming that these paper cells have a discharge rate of 1C (which is pretty standard) they would have a max discharge in amps equal to their amp hours. This means a paper D cell, which weighs as much as a normal C cell, can discharge at 243 amps! With a voltage of 120, this means this thing can discharge at 29 kw! They would also hold ~105 mega joules of capacity! This is kinda crazy! The only down side compared to a normal power cell is that it costs 5 times as much.
Now how to figure the voltages, amps and what not for "canon" batteries... is kinda a moot point. So long as you know discharge rate and capacity for the battery in joules, you can kinda plug in any numbers you want since they will end up equaling the same thing. Since we know that a battery here discharges in 15 min it has a rating of 4C, let's assume a "canon" C battery also is 12 volts. This would give it 20.3 Ah and a discharge of ~83 amps.
So to give you some math to play with:
Power (watts) = Amps × volts.
Watthours (battery capacity) = Cells capacity in kilojoules divided by 3.6.
Amphours (Also battery capacity) = watthours divided by volts.
Amps (Also power) = Amphours times C rate.
C rate is figured by how many hours it takes the battery to be drained. Divide 1 by how many hours it takes to drain the battery (for examples a 15 min drain time works out to 1/0.25 or 4C).
Hope this helps.
That really did help clear some things up, thanks! "Power Cells" being canon fast-discharge power cells and "Batteries" meaning "More energy/slower discharge" actually reduces some confusion I think and breaks up the functionality of both, giving both a niche. They should have kept it, but like you said...whining happened lol
DeleteDo you think that the paper cell numbers are off? I had actually figured out the amps and mJ of the D paper cells but I wanted a second opinion from someone who is probably better at math than myself! Incidentally, I found that the B paper cells have like 100x fewer kJ than the C cells. Odd.
My campaign is solidly TL 11 in terms of power. But I'm starting to find your 'batteries' more realistic than the paper cells! But as you said, since they're just included in the devices and not given capacities, you can just kind of 'plug in' figures. Do you have a position on the paper cell realism?
DeleteWelp, found out I made a mistake in my calculations (that's what I get for trying to write a super long reply after coming home from an almost 10 hr shift at work heh). My tired brain gave on on flopping between watts and kilowatts and I over stated the paper cells discharge rate, that should be in watts and not kilowatts... but this... only slightly fixes how op they are.
Ok, so the fast discharging style power cells can only store 90 kj for a C Cell at TL 9 (or 1.44 mega joules at TL 11, things go up by a factor of 4 per TL). Batteries store ten times that much but can only discharge at 2 kw per pound (32 kw at TL 11). A C Cell (battery or otherwise) weighs half a pound can costs $10.
A C paper cell can store 27 amp hours at 12 volts, 27 × 12 equals 324 watthours and 324 × 3.6 equals ~1.17 mega joules. This is ~30% more storage then a power cell. Discharge rate in kw depends on the C rate as I said before but even if they're only 1C then the discharge is 0.324 kw (not 324 kw... >.>). If they're 4C like the batteries are then this jumps up to ~1.3 kws or about 30% more as well. Now that's not too bad... until you look at the weights.... a C paper cell weighs ten times less then a normal C cell and still costs only $10! Yeah, it's more expensive per pound buuuut... given you're getting better performance for the same price and a tenth of the weight... yeah that's kind OP.
There is a fix though. This being the weights feel off. If you make the weights line up with their power cell equivalent (such as a paper C cell weighing 0.5 lbs) and keep the increased cost, then the fact their little better isn't as big as an issue as they also cost 5 times as much.
The article also seems to think the capacity will only double by TL 10 meaning. TL 11 tech should boost this by some amount but I only know of this tech and haven't studied it on a deeper level so your guess is as good as as to how big of a boost TL 11 can give it. Maybe it can double it again or maybe advances let to quadruple but if you're feeling a bit more restrained then maybe a 1.5 times increase. But either which way it'll lose some of it's edge by TL 11.
The 4th version of vehicles were going to bring back the difference between power cells and batteries but with a very different progression and a lot more options (as well as explain why the larger cells cost so much and have a greater capacity). Sadly we're more then likely never going to see these rules surface... at lest not under 4th edition (there has been some rumblings about a 5th buuuut that was mostly to gauge responses to the idea during the wake of the WOTC shooting it's self in the foot by going full evil corporate empire; no guaranteeing that this goes anywhere).
Now of course at the end of the day realism is just a means to an end. What matters more is consistency. Tweak things however you need to make things work on your game. When I set up things for my games I don't always follow raw (for example I use sensor rules that are closer to how they worked in 3rd edition since they're more realistic, but also more complicated buuuut... well... what did you expect from me heh). So take what you learned here and make the paper cells fit into the niche you needs them to take and not worry if this is what the author or myself intended.
Thank you so much for all of this. Sorry for the slow response...my weekend was insanely busy. I can't tell you how much getting a knowledgeable second opinion has helped in my worldbuilding. I thought that my math was off at first myself until you kinda double-checked it here haha. I was thinking of scaling the paper cell discharge rate linearly too. Like, make the D-version 9 or 10 times what the C-version is (in megajoules I mean) instead of having that massive power leap that happens between C and D. After all, why should the voltage be so wildly divergent between C and D right if it isn't for 'canon batteries' right? But yeah, again, thanks for going through all those calculations for a stranger! Like you, I like my reality simulations nice and complicated...like reality. :)
DeleteI'll be continuing to follow your blog for sure.
DeleteNo problem man, I understand. As for the voltage for GURPS batteries, that's because it's not something that comes up since it measures them in watts and joules instead of worrying about amps and amp hours. It's also for simplicity. Most people just want to throw their future battery into their pew pew beam and not worry if they can draw enough amps from it heh. Now nothing stops you from coming up with different voltages and C rates if you want that detail for you game. You just have to want to put the leg work in.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteOh heck no! I want to assume that by TL 11, they've figured out how to standardize discharge rates with the gadgets that use them :) Of course that might not stop me from making differing voltages an issue for PCs who think they can ram nanopaper into any random gizmo and expect it to work haha. I actually messaged the guy who wrote the article. Really nice fellow and quite brilliant. Long story short, it seems that what we already agreed was true: A bit of math-shyness among the general readership made it problematic for him to be too specific regarding energy densities. He reassured me that assuming C-paper as standard and extrapolating from there according to mass as is the case with power cells would be just as reasonable (and 10 C-cells almost perfectly makes a C-battery, so that's what I'm sticking with). Again, thanks for the equations and guidance.
Delete